translation of "grojjer"?

[Jan den Hollander]

Forgive my ignorance, but is ß sometimes spelled as "jj"? I.e. is
grojjer synonymous with großer?

Probaly caused by automatic character recognition programs. "ss"
written with long characters "s", could easily be confused/mixed with
"jj"

a books.google search http://books.google.com/books?q=grojjer finds a
great many of "grojjer"'s, the majority of which seems to resolve as
"großer" written in Fraktur

...but only in wrong or "international" spelling: "größer", spelled
correctly, comes with ß not with ss.

What is your source by the way (where you found "grojjer")?

what about Goethes Faust?
http://books.google.com/books?id=1kFAAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA295&dq=grojjer ;
very first hit of the above mentioned books.google search. Somebody at
Google has to get his act together about character recognition of Fraktur

An interesting question indeed!
Ciao,
Paul

[Christoph Freitag]

Post by Jan den Hollander

Forgive my ignorance, but is ß sometimes spelled as "jj"? I.e. is
grojjer synonymous with großer?

Probaly caused by automatic character recognition programs. "ss"
written with long characters "s", could easily be confused/mixed

with

"jj"

a books.google search http://books.google.com/books?q=grojjer finds a
great many of "grojjer"'s, the majority of which seems to resolve as
"großer" written in Fraktur

...but only in wrong or "international" spelling: "größer", spelled
correctly, comes with ß not with ss.

What is your source by the way (where you found "grojjer")?

what about Goethes Faust?
http://books.google.com/books?id=1kFAAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA295&dq=grojjer ;
very first hit of the above mentioned books.google search. Somebody at
Google has to get his act together about character recognition of Fraktur

An interesting question indeed!
Ciao,
Paul

By the way, the character ß is in fact a ligature of the characters s
and z, sz in Fraktur looks very much like ß. If I'm not mistaken it was
introduced as a replacement for sss which was used in some parts of
Germany for "very strong s".

In Switzerland ß is uncommon (though I don't know if it was ever used)
so a Swiss version of Faust, for example, would transcribe ß as ss. I'm
not sure if you would find so many Swiss texts in Fraktur on the net
though.

A reform replaced many occurances of ß by ss in Germany and Austria a
few years ago, too. My opinion is that this was misguided as it
neglected the nature of ß as a ligature. ss in Fraktur in a modern texr
where before the reform you wrote ß would look really sill, I think.

Christoph

[Uwe Borchert]

Hallo,

Post by Christoph Freitag
By the way, the character ß is in fact a ligature of the characters s
and z, sz in Fraktur looks very much like ß. If I'm not mistaken it was
introduced as a replacement for sss which was used in some parts of
Germany for "very strong s".

Thats not correct. Written in blackletters the sharp-s ist
s+z. Written in antiqua the sharp-s is a ſ (long-s) + s. The
long-s ist unicode 017f. In the 1920th there was a few
grotesque typefaces that uses blackletter-sharp-s. One of
this is the Erbar Grotesk.

Post by Christoph Freitag
In Switzerland ß is uncommon (though I don't know if it was ever used)
so a Swiss version of Faust, for example, would transcribe ß as ss. I'm
not sure if you would find so many Swiss texts in Fraktur on the net
though.
A reform replaced many occurances of ß by ss in Germany and Austria a
few years ago, too.

This is tried since more then hundred years. The ellimination
of the long-s caused a lot of problems. It was a good help for
the correct pronunciations of the s. The wiping out of the
sharp-s will force this progress. :-(


MfG


Uwe Borchert